I have no doubt that you're sincere in believing that you're thinking
"outside the box," but as best I can see, you're still just
poking around different corners of the same box in which atheists
always constrain their thinking. You're trying to use reason to prove
that God doesn't exist, but I ask that you take another look at your
If you will, substitute the word "love" for
"worship" and the word "parent" for
"creator." These changes have no significant change on the
meaning, as worship is a form of love and a parent is a type of
creator. The changes do, however, bring your statement into the
realm of your own personal experience so that you can better
understand just what you've said:
Thinking in the box: Why should anyone love a parent?
Thinking out of the box: Why would a parent want to be loved?
Thinking in the box: A parent would need to be created by
Thinking out of the box: There is no "parent" and
there never will be.
I hope you can see from this example that your first two statements
would only make sense to someone who has no concept of love or the
relationship of love that can exist between a parent and child. Your
original statement would similarly only make sense to someone who has
no concept of worship or any real understanding of God, so stating it
does not make it true.
Your third statement is of course true, but it should be clear that
the conclusion you've drawn in your fourth statement is absolutely
false. Your conclusions about God can be no more valid.
The truth is that we cannot prove or disprove God's existence with
reason alone. I've come to find that the only meaningful answers are
found in personal experience. Once you've loved, and been loved by, a
parent, you understand the concept and understand the truth of the
experience. It is the same with our relationship with God. You have to
experience it to understand its meaning and to know its truth.
So is atheism really rational or does it amount to little more than
closing oneself in a closet or box and saying there is no such thing
as light? That is something you have to determine for yourself, but to
get any real answers you have to truly get completely outside the box
of atheistic thinking. True "thinking outside your box" in
this case means looking at life and the universe from entirely
different points of view, from that of a theist and more importantly
yet, from God's view. To do this, we need to come to better understand
and know the God that is revealed to us in scripture and in prayer. I
was once an agnostic, and very cynical towards anything even remotely
spiritual or religious. I found though that seeing, and experiencing,
the other viewpoint has been one of the greatest experiences of change
and growth in my life. The best place to start is in humble prayer,
asking for knowledge and admitting how little we really know.
We each must make this journey for ourselves, but I've tried to
share mine in a site called "Snapshots
I invite you to take a look and to see if it gives you yet a different
perspective from which to see the world. Please let me know if I can
help in any way. I'll be happy to do my best to answer any
questions you may have.
P.S. Here are some views from outside the atheistic box, which by
itself offers only a very limited human perspective:
(Isaiah 55:8-9) "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. "As the
heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your
ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
This is adoration (i.e., worship): not a difficult religious exercise,
but an attitude of the soul.
Faith in active opposition to common sense is mistaken enthusiasm
and narrow-mindedness, and common sense in opposition to faith
demonstrates a mistaken reliance on reason as the basis for truth.
(John 14:6-7) Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and
the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really
knew me, you would know my Father as well."
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is
proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in
everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to